An Open Letter To The APRF Cult (On The Silencing of Renegade Evolution)

[UPDATE #2: Ren just announced that she is now imposing her own personal moratorium on discussion on radical feminism.  Sigh...another voice silenced.

And Andrea over at the Silver Leaf Oak has announced that her blog will be going private soon in response to the assaults on her.  And another…

And…Chasingmoksha has stepped up her attacks on me personally; I posted this response at W-W’s blog (reposted here in case she decides to delete it for obvious reasons):

Now, I know that being the Porn-Loving Patriarch that I am (not really), that my views will probably not get through the filters imposed by W-W…but Chasingmoksha’s mention of me is just too much to resist….so I will try my best.

Is it not enough for you that Ren has said openly and publically that she would stop “trashing” you and your sister ideologues, CM?? Or perhaps, only a full confession of her sins as a “sexbot” and a slut, followed by a ritual self-flagellation and a conversion to the Church of MacDworkinism will do for you?

And what I say at my blog or any other blog is MY words and MY words alone…I am paid by no one (except my current employer, and they don’t really care about what I do when I’m off the clock.

And hell, yes, I am openly and unabashedly critical of what you so aptly call “radical feminism”, because it has been proven time and time again to be nothing more than a Trojan horse for the most vile personal hatreds and loathing of women — and feminists, too — whose only crime is to not march in perfect goose step with your chosen ideology of sex-baiting and universal, collective guilt.

If you are going to quote my blog and my words, at least have the decency to smack me down in public rather than hiding behind a firewalled blog. But then again, decency hasn’t been much of a presence here lately.

You made the wine, ladies…now you will drink the cup. You will be treated as you treat others.

Oh…and please, oh, for Goddess’ sake, do please bring out all the “dirt” you can find on me you can. You may have intimidated Andrea and Ren to silence…but I believe in rapid response in kind when attacked….and I’ve survived much worse.

It is officially on, ladies. You want a reasoned debate, I’m right here. You want to go nuclear….well, I’m still here. Let’s dance.

Anthony

 

[UPDATE:  The woman who originally outed the Genderberg forum piece attacking Ren to begin with has just put out her own blog with an explanation of why she did it....and a nice and through smackdown of the APRF cultists.

Please go over to Deep Feminist’s new Radical Feminist Terrorism blog and hear her out.

Radical Feminist Terrorism: Enough Is Enough

—————————————————————————————————————————-

Influenced by this thread over at Witchy-Woo’s place; and this response by Ren)

Well, ladies (and specifically, W-W, StormyCloud, Delphyne, Heart(less), Chasingmoksha, Ly, Shannon, and Pony)….are you satisfied now with yourselves?

I guess that it really wasn’t enough for you to trash Ren personally merely because you don’t like her chosen profession, her personal sex life, or her looks.  Nor is it enough to take an insult used in anger and rage at the verbal assualt that you imposed on her cyberfriends and colleagues and distort it into a all out "trashing of radical feminists", prompting her banishment from your esteemed radfem space and of all sisterhood forever and ever.

But now…you had to go and threaten to out her private, personal life….until and unless she ceases to "attack" radical feminists.

Funny..but I didn’t know that laws against blackmail and invasion of personal privacy were mere tokens of the "patriarchy" to be broken at will when it suits your purpose.

But what I don’t get is this: y’all say that you support the highest of feminist values….but since when is threatening to "out" someone merely because they simply don’t march in perfect goose step with your beliefs such a feminist value?? Since when does lecturing another woman that her personal decisions about her own body (which do no harm to herself or to others, BTW) are innately "destructive" to all "sisterhood" and should be shunned with the scarlet letter "S" ( for "sexbot"??? "Slut"??? "Sell out"???) for all time???

Oh, but I forgot…..this is ANTI-PORN RADICAL FEMINISM, where this is done all the time.  Ask Bitch|Lab.

And the sad thing is, that such lowdown intimidation tactics do tend to work sometimes.  Ren has already posted a long response saying that she will back off if Stormy does the same. My guess is that the latter simply won’t….in fact, like Uncle Karl and the Swift Boat Liars and the Right-Wing Noise Machine to which these "ladies" really do aspire to; they will take this as a sign to threaten and harrass more critics…and who knows, maybe even report them to the authorities.  You know..those same authorities controlled by the very patriarchy they allegedly oppose??

But, hey..you got to break some eggs to make an omlet, and if fighting global patriarchy and menz’ oppression (read, their erections and women’s "moist pussies") means breaking a few sluts and sexbots (and even a few legitimate feminists) and selling them out to the same patriarchy….well everything will be better after the revolution.

You may have broken Ren (or not), but there are too many of us — male progressive and progressive feminist – who do see through your bullshit; and won’t be so intimidated.  And please, please, for Goddess’ sake, please do put out as much "dirt" on our personal lives as you can…all that shows is how fundamentally weak your movement really is. 

To paraphrase the Electic Light Orchestra’s classic "Evil Woman": "You made the wine, now you drink the cup." You think you’ve seen bad; but you just don’t know how bad we can really get when we are pushed too far.

It’s officially on, ladies. The "sexbots" and their "patriarchial" male friends and supporters start fighting back NOW.  Deal with it.

 

…And The Fighting 101 PHB Welcomes A New Member…

I am so pleased and honored to give a hearty SmackDog Raised Soupbone Fist of Justice welcome to Greta Christina, who had some nice things to say about my entry on the Duke rape case fiasco, and the blog in general.

And it’s not as if African-American women, and sex workers, and African-American sex workers, don’t get raped by privileged white guys. But now the ones who do are going to have a much harder time of it. There are thousands of times that this happens, and it never makes the papers — but this is the case that people are going to remember.

But… oh, just go read the piece on the SmackDog blog. He says it better than I can. And it’s a really good blog generally, and worth checking out.

Yeah, maybe so, Greta….but I have a ways to go before I can approach your level of talent.

Take a gander at her classic and spirited defense of the girls of Girls Gone Wild (the girls, Clones…NOT the jackass assclown who exploited them for his own profits) and the principle of sexual autonomy in general that she wrote a while back. An excerpt:

[...]

The writing I’ve seen about Girls Gone Wild is largely taking two directions. One is pity/concern for the poor exploited girls who are being taken advantage of when they’re too excited/too young/too drunk to know what they’re doing. The other is pity/contempt for the vulgar idiot girls who are squandering their feminist heritage by pulling their shirts up on camera… and are ruining things for the rest of us.

And I have much the same problem with both. I think there’s more than a whiff of patronization, and elitism even, in both attitudes.

Let me talk about the first one first. In the strict Marxist sense, of course the women in GGW are being exploited. They’re being paid a disproportionately low amount for their labor — they’re getting paid in T-shirts and Mardi Gras beads, so duh — and someone else is getting rich off that labor. But I’ve seen a few of these videos, and it sure looks to me like most of these girls know what they’re doing and very much want to be doing it. They like the attention; they get off on exhibitionism; they enjoy feeling sexy and wild; they like having an excuse to do dirty things they wouldn’t ordinarily do.

Will they regret it later? Maybe. Some of them almost certainly will. But you know, a lot of us have done things in our youths that we now regret and can’t take back. (My entire first relationship leaps to mind.) Making dumb choices that you regret is part of being young. It’s the flip side of risk-taking and adventure.

As to the women being too drunk to consent goes, I’m not seeing it. I’ve seen tipsiness in the GGW videos, high spirits, probably even some impaired judgement — but not blackout drunkenness, not drunkenness that would obliterate consent. I could be wrong, I’m not there on the streets of Spring Break with a Breathalyzer and a lie detector test (those don’t work, anyway)… but it sure looks to me like, hammered though many of them are, most of these girls know what they’re doing and know what they want.

Which brings me to my second point: the "they’re squandering their feminist heritage" argument.

This is the one that really bugs me. It’s as if sexual liberation is only for those of us with the right sex-positive feminist credentials — not for yahoo sorority girls who want to pull their shirts up on camera. Like they don’t deserve to have sexual choices, because they’ll make the wrong ones.

But we all deserve sexual liberation. We all deserve the freedom to make sexual choices — even dumb ones or crass ones. As someone whose name I can’t remember once said, not all censorship battles can be about Ulysses. (Does anyone know the source for that quote, btw? I couldn’t find it.) And the battle for sexual liberation and the right to sexual expression can’t always be about brilliant sex-themed performance art, or beautiful ecstatic lovemaking in loving long-term relationships. Sometimes it’s about college girls at big drunken parties pulling their shirts off for the video cameras. That’s the whole point of feminist sexual liberation — we don’t get to go around scolding other women for their consenting sexual choices. (Not on moral or political grounds, anyway. On aesthetic grounds… that’s another story.)

I’ve seen arguments that the problem with GGW isn’t the girls whipping their tops off for the camera — it’s the people behind the camera, the crassness of the videos and the company and the grotesqueness of the main man behind them. It’s not liberated or empowering if you’re whipping your top off for exploitative assholes, or so goes the argument. But while I’m certainly not going to defend the motives of the GGW empire (especially not now), I still think we should support the sexual agency of the wild girls themselves. Do you think every single porn movie that Annie Sprinkle or Nina Hartley ever made was a delicate work of artistic beauty and profound insight, made by sensitive feminists, with the profits going to rape crisis centers and saving the rainforest? I sure don’t. I’m sure that at least some of their movies were silly and dumb, and that the profits from at least some of them went to pay for the sports cars and coke habits of nitwit Silicone Valley porn producers. That doesn’t negate Nina and Annie’s sexual agency and power.

And I think a lot of the "won’t somebody please think of the children?" hysteria about the women in the GGW videos is just flat-out sexist. The same company that makes the "Girls Gone Wild" videos also makes "Guys Gone Wild" videos as well… and I think it’s extremely interesting that nobody, not one person that I’ve heard or read on this subject, has gotten upset about the poor stupid young college boys with low self-esteem who got drunk and let themselves be manipulated into flashing their asses and dicks on camera, and who are going to feel violated and ashamed the next morning and will regret it for the rest of their lives. It’s apparently just young women who are incapable of making their own sexual decisions and living with the consequences.

So here is my plea. Can we please, please, try not to extend our excoriation of Joe Francis to an excoriation of the women who’ve performed in his videos?

Can we please treat them like adults, and in the absence of evidence to the contrary, give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they do what they do because they want to do it?

Can we please at least try to remember that other people like different sexual things from what we like… and not jump to the conclusion that if someone is doing something sexual that we wouldn’t enjoy, therefore they don’t enjoy it either, and therefore they’re only doing it out of manipulation, desperation, coercion, drunkenness, low self-esteem, cultural brainwashing, etc.?

Because when we treat the Girls Gone Wild with patronizing pity and contempt, when we stop respecting them and their sexual agency, it’s a small step to disrespecting Nina Hartley and Tristan Taormino and Annie Sprinkle and Carol Queen and all the other great exhibitionists of the world. And it’s a small step from there to disrespecting every woman — and every man — who makes unpopular sexual choices.

Hear, freakin’ hear.

Don’t let me stop you from going there and checking Greta out.  She’s well worth the trip.

 

FauxNewsChannel Whacks The Oxy(contin) Addict On Serial Killers Being Liberals

Thanks to ‘Bina Becker for granting me permission to post this video.

Sooooo…Rushbo says that the Va Tech shooter was a liberal trained by liberals to hate the rich, right????

Really??

Does he know about the history of serial killers??

Does he really want to go there??

Thankfully for us, FauxNewsChannel.com (a spoof of the original FOXNews site) has the facts…as stated in this YouTube video.  Take that along with your bootleg Viagra on your next sex trip to the Bahamas, Fat-Ass:

 

 And let’s not forget about Eric Rudolph, Andrea Yates, Ted Bundy, Susan Smith, and on, and on, etc., etc., ….

 

The APRF Cult Strikes Again: Drive-Bys @ Ren & A Whackjob Named Der Gregor

It has been quite amusing watching the antipornradicafeminist beehive lately in its attempts to wipe out their critics.

It wasn’t enough for them to go straight to the "wasp" vs. "honeybee" card and demonize the evil threats from outside the hive (including such traitors like Laura and Andrea, not to mention the likes of "Ambutt", "Belledodo", "PorniePrincess" and "Retrograde Evolution" for having the gall to face the world without the approval of the APRF hive mentality.  But when former radfems who actually start using their brain cells and their eyes and ears to actually see the world from a view other than the Gospels of MacKinnon, Dworkin, and Raymond and actually begin to question their former beliefs…well, let’s just say that things can get ugly.

The latest case in point was mentioned in the last post here: Heart(less)’s base smackdown of Ren for her reaction of anger to Antiprincess pulling her blog due to the insane harrassment by the usual suspects, not to mention the abuse that Jill Brenneman, Andrea (at The Silver Oak Leaf) and a few other women have been getting).  OK, so Ren did get pretty pissed enough to go to the "Fall under a truck and die choking on your own blood" card…but then again, Ren usually gets that way when something or someone really yanks her chain.  How that outburst translates to "silencing" of antipornradfem voices, however, is a mystery that only Heart and her allies could let us in on. (Especially when Heart refuses to even allow the accused to defend themselves of those charges.)  In the same breath that she dropped that charge at Ren, she closed down comments at her blog. But, since she’s a regular at the Genderberg forum, I’m sure that she will have a grand old time further bashing and trashing Ren as a slut/whore/cock-sucking sexbot handmaiden slave to all rapist men.

But even Heart looks practically statesman compared to another particular antipornradfem activist who has been more than a bit active lately. Just go over to Jill Brenneman’s blog and scroll to the comments section of some of her latest entries…and witness the deep thought of a certain male radfem troll named Der Gregor, who has decided that he and he alone will be the representative of APRF thought.

Here are but a few highlights of Gregor’s mindset, some of which in response to Jill, and some in response to other commentators’ attempts to counter his pseudo-theology:

"I don’t need studies and statistics to tell me that there is a relationship between pornography and real violence against women. My body remembers." — Woman’s testimony, 1983.*

[...]

Pornography’s influence is not limited to where it is presented. Those who use it are changed by it. It becomes acceptable in their minds for them to treat all women in the way they see the women in the pornography. It becomes "okay" for them to view women as sexual objects. When men treat women as sexual objects, they do not relate to them on a human to human level. They begin to think it is all right for them to say things to them they would never say to a fellow human being. The respect, the camaraderie is lost.

It is not "okay" for men to view women as sexual objects. Pornography is not "okay". It has begun to proliferate our media, our magazines, our internet, our television. What abour our children? They are seeing this too. Do we really want our children growing up in a world like this? How do you think the children would feel to know how men are viewing their mothers? Their teachers? Their friends? Is this really how we want our world, folks?

– Response to Jill’s essay "Difference between sex work and trafficking"; where Gregor mimes APRF crackpot Diana Russell

Jill, feminism is a political movement. Not a special interest group. Feminism is here as a direct result of a worldwide oppression of Women by men. Feminism is here to become the first life affirming and woman -centered political philosophy that has ever been presented to human society, and it would have been there as a movement mush earlier it’s advent only blocked because of men’s monstrous oppression of women, children and anybody else who was weaker and could be consumed in patriarchy’s jaws.

Your movement not a political movement, exept for the fact that it is doing men’s work. As a feminist, i do not blame you personaly because as you know, this is a worlwide disease that causes not only harm to women but also causes the abused to identify with the abuser.

[...]

hat happens in the mind : words from another feminist=

Another reason it’s hard is because there’s a tremendous psychological identification with the oppressor. There’s an absolutely brilliant book called Loving To Survive: Sexual Terror, Men’s Violence, and Women’s Lives by Dee Graham. She’s come up with the concept of Societal Stockholm Syndrome. Her basic thesis is that just as captives bond to their captors in hostage situations, women–and any group that’s oppressed–will bond to men or the group that has social power. Everybody should read this book. It’s incredibly important.

– Responses to Jill’s essay "Comparing Radical Feminism and Sex Worker Rights positions"

Note the thinly veiled implication that Jill, by opposing Gregor’s positions, is "bond[ing] to men or the group that has social power.  In short, even though Jill has said not a word about porn and focused her efforts solely on getting sex workers some floor level of self-protection, her refusal to simply ape the APRF position of "prostituted women" as innate victims of male lust brands her, in Gregor’s eyes, as a tool of men. (All this, BTW, by a man who claims to be an adherent of feminism, no less.)

Again, there you people go with the upside down reality….

most people spend at least some of their time, doing healthier things that obsessing about the evils of radical feminism and extolling the virtues of porn and prostitution.

This is your job it seems, and a full time job. porn in the morning porn in the afternoon, porn in the evening. I think people notice this. either A)= you are being paid to do this Jill, or B)=this topic is something that ossupies your mind 24/7.

– Response to Jill’s essay "Genderberg Blog Topic: Jill Brenneman"

Of course, he’s the one who’s posting constant drive-by smacks there…so who’s really the obsessed one here??

Because prostitution isn’t work, it is sexual slavery and violently enforced physical and psychological submission for almost all of the 40 million prostituted women and girls in the world. Prostituted men, women and Chidren around the world overwhelmingly do not want prostitution legalized and most call it what they have to do to survive but don’t elevate or dignify their bodily violations in prostitution as work.

[...]

You are nothing but an endless parade of lies and smarm . No matter how many times you try to re-package your very sleazy position, it is clear that you are here for, exploitation.Every time I interact with a pro porn male I feel like I have to take a shower .Can *you* address the point that today, from  Copenhagen a place where protitution is legal I recieved a letter from a woman informing me that two  14 year olds were found tricking in the "legal’ red light district? We are talking about young girls , our sisters you pervert, but you don’t care about that, of course not.

– responding in Jill’s essay "Responding to Janice Raymond’s Ten Reasons Not To Legalize Prostitution" (Note: the last quote was directed at me, not Jill.)

And he has an interesting way to deal with men who don’t march in perfect goose step, too…witness this response to Iamcuriousblue in another thread:

The point is that *you* are a  MALE prostitutor  >porn pusher< and  that  you, who are infesting Women’s lives Women’s bodies and Women’s conciousness with your dehumanizing  *garbage* are in no position to tell anyone where to participate in the feminist movement.

Funny..I thought that I was the "porn pusher". But I guess that any male who gets an erection at the sight of an naked or scantily clad female who willingly invites them to share in her lust and pleasure must be inevitably a degrading and dehumanizing "porn pusher", ehhh, Gregor???

This asshat makes Sam look practically moderate in her zealotry, no??

The APRF Cult Strikes Again: Drive-Bys @ Ren & A Whackjob Named Der Gregor

It has been quite amusing watching the antipornradicafeminist beehive lately in its attempts to wipe out their critics.

It wasn’t enough for them to go straight to the "wasp" vs. "honeybee" card and demonize the evil threats from outside the hive (including such traitors like Laura and Andrea, not to mention the likes of "Ambutt", "Belledodo", "PorniePrincess" and "Retrograde Evolution" for having the gall to face the world without the approval of the APRF hive mentality.  But when former radfems who actually start using their brain cells and their eyes and ears to actually see the world from a view other than the Gospels of MacKinnon, Dworkin, and Raymond and actually begin to question their former beliefs…well, let’s just say that things can get ugly.

The latest case in point was mentioned in the last post here: Heart(less)’s base smackdown of Ren for her reaction of anger to Antiprincess pulling her blog due to the insane harrassment by the usual suspects, not to mention the abuse that Jill Brenneman, Andrea (at The Silver Oak Leaf) and a few other women have been getting).  OK, so Ren did get pretty pissed enough to go to the "Fall under a truck and die choking on your own blood" card…but then again, Ren usually gets that way when something or someone really yanks her chain.  How that outburst translates to "silencing" of antipornradfem voices, however, is a mystery that only Heart and her allies could let us in on. (Especially when Heart refuses to even allow the accused to defend themselves of those charges.)  In the same breath that she dropped that charge at Ren, she closed down comments at her blog. But, since she’s a regular at the Genderberg forum, I’m sure that she will have a grand old time further bashing and trashing Ren as a slut/whore/cock-sucking sexbot handmaiden slave to all rapist men.

But even Heart looks practically statesman compared to another particular antipornradfem activist who has been more than a bit active lately. Just go over to Jill Brenneman’s blog and scroll to the comments section of some of her latest entries…and witness the deep thought of a certain male radfem troll named Der Gregor, who has decided that he and he alone will be the representative of APRF thought.

Here are but a few highlights of Gregor’s mindset, some of which in response to Jill, and some in response to other commentators’ attempts to counter his pseudo-theology:

"I don’t need studies and statistics to tell me that there is a relationship between pornography and real violence against women. My body remembers." — Woman’s testimony, 1983.*

[...]

Pornography’s influence is not limited to where it is presented. Those who use it are changed by it. It becomes acceptable in their minds for them to treat all women in the way they see the women in the pornography. It becomes "okay" for them to view women as sexual objects. When men treat women as sexual objects, they do not relate to them on a human to human level. They begin to think it is all right for them to say things to them they would never say to a fellow human being. The respect, the camaraderie is lost.

It is not "okay" for men to view women as sexual objects. Pornography is not "okay". It has begun to proliferate our media, our magazines, our internet, our television. What abour our children? They are seeing this too. Do we really want our children growing up in a world like this? How do you think the children would feel to know how men are viewing their mothers? Their teachers? Their friends? Is this really how we want our world, folks?

– Response to Jill’s essay "Difference between sex work and trafficking"; where Gregor mimes APRF crackpot Diana Russell

Jill, feminism is a political movement. Not a special interest group. Feminism is here as a direct result of a worldwide oppression of Women by men. Feminism is here to become the first life affirming and woman -centered political philosophy that has ever been presented to human society, and it would have been there as a movement mush earlier it’s advent only blocked because of men’s monstrous oppression of women, children and anybody else who was weaker and could be consumed in patriarchy’s jaws.

Your movement not a political movement, exept for the fact that it is doing men’s work. As a feminist, i do not blame you personaly because as you know, this is a worlwide disease that causes not only harm to women but also causes the abused to identify with the abuser.

[...]

hat happens in the mind : words from another feminist=

Another reason it’s hard is because there’s a tremendous psychological identification with the oppressor. There’s an absolutely brilliant book called Loving To Survive: Sexual Terror, Men’s Violence, and Women’s Lives by Dee Graham. She’s come up with the concept of Societal Stockholm Syndrome. Her basic thesis is that just as captives bond to their captors in hostage situations, women–and any group that’s oppressed–will bond to men or the group that has social power. Everybody should read this book. It’s incredibly important.

– Responses to Jill’s essay "Comparing Radical Feminism and Sex Worker Rights positions"

Note the thinly veiled implication that Jill, by opposing Gregor’s positions, is "bond[ing] to men or the group that has social power.  In short, even though Jill has said not a word about porn and focused her efforts solely on getting sex workers some floor level of self-protection, her refusal to simply ape the APRF position of "prostituted women" as innate victims of male lust brands her, in Gregor’s eyes, as a tool of men. (All this, BTW, by a man who claims to be an adherent of feminism, no less.)

Again, there you people go with the upside down reality….

most people spend at least some of their time, doing healthier things that obsessing about the evils of radical feminism and extolling the virtues of porn and prostitution.

This is your job it seems, and a full time job. porn in the morning porn in the afternoon, porn in the evening. I think people notice this. either A)= you are being paid to do this Jill, or B)=this topic is something that ossupies your mind 24/7.

– Response to Jill’s essay "Genderberg Blog Topic: Jill Brenneman"

Of course, he’s the one who’s posting constant drive-by smacks there…so who’s really the obsessed one here??

Because prostitution isn’t work, it is sexual slavery and violently enforced physical and psychological submission for almost all of the 40 million prostituted women and girls in the world. Prostituted men, women and Chidren around the world overwhelmingly do not want prostitution legalized and most call it what they have to do to survive but don’t elevate or dignify their bodily violations in prostitution as work.

[...]

You are nothing but an endless parade of lies and smarm . No matter how many times you try to re-package your very sleazy position, it is clear that you are here for, exploitation.Every time I interact with a pro porn male I feel like I have to take a shower .Can *you* address the point that today, from  Copenhagen a place where protitution is legal I recieved a letter from a woman informing me that two  14 year olds were found tricking in the "legal’ red light district? We are talking about young girls , our sisters you pervert, but you don’t care about that, of course not.

– responding in Jill’s essay "Responding to Janice Raymond’s Ten Reasons Not To Legalize Prostitution" (Note: the last quote was directed at me, not Jill.)

And he has an interesting way to deal with men who don’t march in perfect goose step, too…witness this response to Iamcuriousblue in another thread:

The point is that *you* are a  MALE prostitutor  >porn pusher< and  that  you, who are infesting Women’s lives Women’s bodies and Women’s conciousness with your dehumanizing  *garbage* are in no position to tell anyone where to participate in the feminist movement.

Funny..I thought that I was the "porn pusher". But I guess that any male who gets an erection at the sight of an naked or scantily clad female who willingly invites them to share in her lust and pleasure must be inevitably a degrading and dehumanizing "porn pusher", ehhh, Gregor???

This asshat makes Sam look practically moderate in her zealotry, no??

The APRF Cult Strikes Again: Drive-Bys @ Ren & A Whackjob Named Der Gregor

It has been quite amusing watching the antipornradicafeminist beehive lately in its attempts to wipe out their critics.

It wasn’t enough for them to go straight to the "wasp" vs. "honeybee" card and demonize the evil threats from outside the hive (including such traitors like Laura and Andrea, not to mention the likes of "Ambutt", "Belledodo", "PorniePrincess" and "Retrograde Evolution" for having the gall to face the world without the approval of the APRF hive mentality.  But when former radfems who actually start using their brain cells and their eyes and ears to actually see the world from a view other than the Gospels of MacKinnon, Dworkin, and Raymond and actually begin to question their former beliefs…well, let’s just say that things can get ugly.

The latest case in point was mentioned in the last post here: Heart(less)’s base smackdown of Ren for her reaction of anger to Antiprincess pulling her blog due to the insane harrassment by the usual suspects, not to mention the abuse that Jill Brenneman, Andrea (at The Silver Oak Leaf) and a few other women have been getting).  OK, so Ren did get pretty pissed enough to go to the "Fall under a truck and die choking on your own blood" card…but then again, Ren usually gets that way when something or someone really yanks her chain.  How that outburst translates to "silencing" of antipornradfem voices, however, is a mystery that only Heart and her allies could let us in on. (Especially when Heart refuses to even allow the accused to defend themselves of those charges.)  In the same breath that she dropped that charge at Ren, she closed down comments at her blog. But, since she’s a regular at the Genderberg forum, I’m sure that she will have a grand old time further bashing and trashing Ren as a slut/whore/cock-sucking sexbot handmaiden slave to all rapist men.

But even Heart looks practically statesman compared to another particular antipornradfem activist who has been more than a bit active lately. Just go over to Jill Brenneman’s blog and scroll to the comments section of some of her latest entries…and witness the deep thought of a certain male radfem troll named Der Gregor, who has decided that he and he alone will be the representative of APRF thought.

Here are but a few highlights of Gregor’s mindset, some of which in response to Jill, and some in response to other commentators’ attempts to counter his pseudo-theology:

"I don’t need studies and statistics to tell me that there is a relationship between pornography and real violence against women. My body remembers." — Woman’s testimony, 1983.*

[...]

Pornography’s influence is not limited to where it is presented. Those who use it are changed by it. It becomes acceptable in their minds for them to treat all women in the way they see the women in the pornography. It becomes "okay" for them to view women as sexual objects. When men treat women as sexual objects, they do not relate to them on a human to human level. They begin to think it is all right for them to say things to them they would never say to a fellow human being. The respect, the camaraderie is lost.

It is not "okay" for men to view women as sexual objects. Pornography is not "okay". It has begun to proliferate our media, our magazines, our internet, our television. What abour our children? They are seeing this too. Do we really want our children growing up in a world like this? How do you think the children would feel to know how men are viewing their mothers? Their teachers? Their friends? Is this really how we want our world, folks?

– Response to Jill’s essay "Difference between sex work and trafficking"; where Gregor mimes APRF crackpot Diana Russell

Jill, feminism is a political movement. Not a special interest group. Feminism is here as a direct result of a worldwide oppression of Women by men. Feminism is here to become the first life affirming and woman -centered political philosophy that has ever been presented to human society, and it would have been there as a movement mush earlier it’s advent only blocked because of men’s monstrous oppression of women, children and anybody else who was weaker and could be consumed in patriarchy’s jaws.

Your movement not a political movement, exept for the fact that it is doing men’s work. As a feminist, i do not blame you personaly because as you know, this is a worlwide disease that causes not only harm to women but also causes the abused to identify with the abuser.

[...]

hat happens in the mind : words from another feminist=

Another reason it’s hard is because there’s a tremendous psychological identification with the oppressor. There’s an absolutely brilliant book called Loving To Survive: Sexual Terror, Men’s Violence, and Women’s Lives by Dee Graham. She’s come up with the concept of Societal Stockholm Syndrome. Her basic thesis is that just as captives bond to their captors in hostage situations, women–and any group that’s oppressed–will bond to men or the group that has social power. Everybody should read this book. It’s incredibly important.

– Responses to Jill’s essay "Comparing Radical Feminism and Sex Worker Rights positions"

Note the thinly veiled implication that Jill, by opposing Gregor’s positions, is "bond[ing] to men or the group that has social power.  In short, even though Jill has said not a word about porn and focused her efforts solely on getting sex workers some floor level of self-protection, her refusal to simply ape the APRF position of "prostituted women" as innate victims of male lust brands her, in Gregor’s eyes, as a tool of men. (All this, BTW, by a man who claims to be an adherent of feminism, no less.)

Again, there you people go with the upside down reality….

most people spend at least some of their time, doing healthier things that obsessing about the evils of radical feminism and extolling the virtues of porn and prostitution.

This is your job it seems, and a full time job. porn in the morning porn in the afternoon, porn in the evening. I think people notice this. either A)= you are being paid to do this Jill, or B)=this topic is something that ossupies your mind 24/7.

– Response to Jill’s essay "Genderberg Blog Topic: Jill Brenneman"

Of course, he’s the one who’s posting constant drive-by smacks there…so who’s really the obsessed one here??

Because prostitution isn’t work, it is sexual slavery and violently enforced physical and psychological submission for almost all of the 40 million prostituted women and girls in the world. Prostituted men, women and Chidren around the world overwhelmingly do not want prostitution legalized and most call it what they have to do to survive but don’t elevate or dignify their bodily violations in prostitution as work.

[...]

You are nothing but an endless parade of lies and smarm . No matter how many times you try to re-package your very sleazy position, it is clear that you are here for, exploitation.Every time I interact with a pro porn male I feel like I have to take a shower .Can *you* address the point that today, from  Copenhagen a place where protitution is legal I recieved a letter from a woman informing me that two  14 year olds were found tricking in the "legal’ red light district? We are talking about young girls , our sisters you pervert, but you don’t care about that, of course not.

– responding in Jill’s essay "Responding to Janice Raymond’s Ten Reasons Not To Legalize Prostitution" (Note: the last quote was directed at me, not Jill.)

And he has an interesting way to deal with men who don’t march in perfect goose step, too…witness this response to Iamcuriousblue in another thread:

The point is that *you* are a  MALE prostitutor  >porn pusher< and  that  you, who are infesting Women’s lives Women’s bodies and Women’s conciousness with your dehumanizing  *garbage* are in no position to tell anyone where to participate in the feminist movement.

Funny..I thought that I was the "porn pusher". But I guess that any male who gets an erection at the sight of an naked or scantily clad female who willingly invites them to share in her lust and pleasure must be inevitably a degrading and dehumanizing "porn pusher", ehhh, Gregor???

This asshat makes Sam look practically moderate in her zealotry, no??

The APRF Cult Strikes Again: Drive-Bys @ Ren & A Whackjob Named Der Gregor

It has been quite amusing watching the antipornradicafeminist beehive lately in its attempts to wipe out their critics.

It wasn’t enough for them to go straight to the "wasp" vs. "honeybee" card and demonize the evil threats from outside the hive (including such traitors like Laura and Andrea, not to mention the likes of "Ambutt", "Belledodo", "PorniePrincess" and "Retrograde Evolution" for having the gall to face the world without the approval of the APRF hive mentality.  But when former radfems who actually start using their brain cells and their eyes and ears to actually see the world from a view other than the Gospels of MacKinnon, Dworkin, and Raymond and actually begin to question their former beliefs…well, let’s just say that things can get ugly.

The latest case in point was mentioned in the last post here: Heart(less)’s base smackdown of Ren for her reaction of anger to Antiprincess pulling her blog due to the insane harrassment by the usual suspects, not to mention the abuse that Jill Brenneman, Andrea (at The Silver Oak Leaf) and a few other women have been getting).  OK, so Ren did get pretty pissed enough to go to the "Fall under a truck and die choking on your own blood" card…but then again, Ren usually gets that way when something or someone really yanks her chain.  How that outburst translates to "silencing" of antipornradfem voices, however, is a mystery that only Heart and her allies could let us in on. (Especially when Heart refuses to even allow the accused to defend themselves of those charges.)  In the same breath that she dropped that charge at Ren, she closed down comments at her blog. But, since she’s a regular at the Genderberg forum, I’m sure that she will have a grand old time further bashing and trashing Ren as a slut/whore/cock-sucking sexbot handmaiden slave to all rapist men.

But even Heart looks practically statesman compared to another particular antipornradfem activist who has been more than a bit active lately. Just go over to Jill Brenneman’s blog and scroll to the comments section of some of her latest entries…and witness the deep thought of a certain male radfem troll named Der Gregor, who has decided that he and he alone will be the representative of APRF thought.

Here are but a few highlights of Gregor’s mindset, some of which in response to Jill, and some in response to other commentators’ attempts to counter his pseudo-theology:

"I don’t need studies and statistics to tell me that there is a relationship between pornography and real violence against women. My body remembers." — Woman’s testimony, 1983.*

[...]

Pornography’s influence is not limited to where it is presented. Those who use it are changed by it. It becomes acceptable in their minds for them to treat all women in the way they see the women in the pornography. It becomes "okay" for them to view women as sexual objects. When men treat women as sexual objects, they do not relate to them on a human to human level. They begin to think it is all right for them to say things to them they would never say to a fellow human being. The respect, the camaraderie is lost.

It is not "okay" for men to view women as sexual objects. Pornography is not "okay". It has begun to proliferate our media, our magazines, our internet, our television. What abour our children? They are seeing this too. Do we really want our children growing up in a world like this? How do you think the children would feel to know how men are viewing their mothers? Their teachers? Their friends? Is this really how we want our world, folks?

– Response to Jill’s essay "Difference between sex work and trafficking"; where Gregor mimes APRF crackpot Diana Russell

Jill, feminism is a political movement. Not a special interest group. Feminism is here as a direct result of a worldwide oppression of Women by men. Feminism is here to become the first life affirming and woman -centered political philosophy that has ever been presented to human society, and it would have been there as a movement mush earlier it’s advent only blocked because of men’s monstrous oppression of women, children and anybody else who was weaker and could be consumed in patriarchy’s jaws.

Your movement not a political movement, exept for the fact that it is doing men’s work. As a feminist, i do not blame you personaly because as you know, this is a worlwide disease that causes not only harm to women but also causes the abused to identify with the abuser.

[...]

hat happens in the mind : words from another feminist=

Another reason it’s hard is because there’s a tremendous psychological identification with the oppressor. There’s an absolutely brilliant book called Loving To Survive: Sexual Terror, Men’s Violence, and Women’s Lives by Dee Graham. She’s come up with the concept of Societal Stockholm Syndrome. Her basic thesis is that just as captives bond to their captors in hostage situations, women–and any group that’s oppressed–will bond to men or the group that has social power. Everybody should read this book. It’s incredibly important.

– Responses to Jill’s essay "Comparing Radical Feminism and Sex Worker Rights positions"

Note the thinly veiled implication that Jill, by opposing Gregor’s positions, is "bond[ing] to men or the group that has social power.  In short, even though Jill has said not a word about porn and focused her efforts solely on getting sex workers some floor level of self-protection, her refusal to simply ape the APRF position of "prostituted women" as innate victims of male lust brands her, in Gregor’s eyes, as a tool of men. (All this, BTW, by a man who claims to be an adherent of feminism, no less.)

Again, there you people go with the upside down reality….

most people spend at least some of their time, doing healthier things that obsessing about the evils of radical feminism and extolling the virtues of porn and prostitution.

This is your job it seems, and a full time job. porn in the morning porn in the afternoon, porn in the evening. I think people notice this. either A)= you are being paid to do this Jill, or B)=this topic is something that ossupies your mind 24/7.

– Response to Jill’s essay "Genderberg Blog Topic: Jill Brenneman"

Of course, he’s the one who’s posting constant drive-by smacks there…so who’s really the obsessed one here??

Because prostitution isn’t work, it is sexual slavery and violently enforced physical and psychological submission for almost all of the 40 million prostituted women and girls in the world. Prostituted men, women and Chidren around the world overwhelmingly do not want prostitution legalized and most call it what they have to do to survive but don’t elevate or dignify their bodily violations in prostitution as work.

[...]

You are nothing but an endless parade of lies and smarm . No matter how many times you try to re-package your very sleazy position, it is clear that you are here for, exploitation.Every time I interact with a pro porn male I feel like I have to take a shower .Can *you* address the point that today, from  Copenhagen a place where protitution is legal I recieved a letter from a woman informing me that two  14 year olds were found tricking in the "legal’ red light district? We are talking about young girls , our sisters you pervert, but you don’t care about that, of course not.

– responding in Jill’s essay "Responding to Janice Raymond’s Ten Reasons Not To Legalize Prostitution" (Note: the last quote was directed at me, not Jill.)

And he has an interesting way to deal with men who don’t march in perfect goose step, too…witness this response to Iamcuriousblue in another thread:

The point is that *you* are a  MALE prostitutor  >porn pusher< and  that  you, who are infesting Women’s lives Women’s bodies and Women’s conciousness with your dehumanizing  *garbage* are in no position to tell anyone where to participate in the feminist movement.

Funny..I thought that I was the "porn pusher". But I guess that any male who gets an erection at the sight of an naked or scantily clad female who willingly invites them to share in her lust and pleasure must be inevitably a degrading and dehumanizing "porn pusher", ehhh, Gregor???

This asshat makes Sam look practically moderate in her zealotry, no??

The APRF Cult Strikes Again: Drive-Bys @ Ren & A Whackjob Named Der Gregor

It has been quite amusing watching the antipornradicafeminist beehive lately in its attempts to wipe out their critics.

It wasn’t enough for them to go straight to the "wasp" vs. "honeybee" card and demonize the evil threats from outside the hive (including such traitors like Laura and Andrea, not to mention the likes of "Ambutt", "Belledodo", "PorniePrincess" and "Retrograde Evolution" for having the gall to face the world without the approval of the APRF hive mentality.  But when former radfems who actually start using their brain cells and their eyes and ears to actually see the world from a view other than the Gospels of MacKinnon, Dworkin, and Raymond and actually begin to question their former beliefs…well, let’s just say that things can get ugly.

The latest case in point was mentioned in the last post here: Heart(less)’s base smackdown of Ren for her reaction of anger to Antiprincess pulling her blog due to the insane harrassment by the usual suspects, not to mention the abuse that Jill Brenneman, Andrea (at The Silver Oak Leaf) and a few other women have been getting).  OK, so Ren did get pretty pissed enough to go to the "Fall under a truck and die choking on your own blood" card…but then again, Ren usually gets that way when something or someone really yanks her chain.  How that outburst translates to "silencing" of antipornradfem voices, however, is a mystery that only Heart and her allies could let us in on. (Especially when Heart refuses to even allow the accused to defend themselves of those charges.)  In the same breath that she dropped that charge at Ren, she closed down comments at her blog. But, since she’s a regular at the Genderberg forum, I’m sure that she will have a grand old time further bashing and trashing Ren as a slut/whore/cock-sucking sexbot handmaiden slave to all rapist men.

But even Heart looks practically statesman compared to another particular antipornradfem activist who has been more than a bit active lately. Just go over to Jill Brenneman’s blog and scroll to the comments section of some of her latest entries…and witness the deep thought of a certain male radfem troll named Der Gregor, who has decided that he and he alone will be the representative of APRF thought.

Here are but a few highlights of Gregor’s mindset, some of which in response to Jill, and some in response to other commentators’ attempts to counter his pseudo-theology:

"I don’t need studies and statistics to tell me that there is a relationship between pornography and real violence against women. My body remembers." — Woman’s testimony, 1983.*

[...]

Pornography’s influence is not limited to where it is presented. Those who use it are changed by it. It becomes acceptable in their minds for them to treat all women in the way they see the women in the pornography. It becomes "okay" for them to view women as sexual objects. When men treat women as sexual objects, they do not relate to them on a human to human level. They begin to think it is all right for them to say things to them they would never say to a fellow human being. The respect, the camaraderie is lost.

It is not "okay" for men to view women as sexual objects. Pornography is not "okay". It has begun to proliferate our media, our magazines, our internet, our television. What abour our children? They are seeing this too. Do we really want our children growing up in a world like this? How do you think the children would feel to know how men are viewing their mothers? Their teachers? Their friends? Is this really how we want our world, folks?

– Response to Jill’s essay "Difference between sex work and trafficking"; where Gregor mimes APRF crackpot Diana Russell

Jill, feminism is a political movement. Not a special interest group. Feminism is here as a direct result of a worldwide oppression of Women by men. Feminism is here to become the first life affirming and woman -centered political philosophy that has ever been presented to human society, and it would have been there as a movement mush earlier it’s advent only blocked because of men’s monstrous oppression of women, children and anybody else who was weaker and could be consumed in patriarchy’s jaws.

Your movement not a political movement, exept for the fact that it is doing men’s work. As a feminist, i do not blame you personaly because as you know, this is a worlwide disease that causes not only harm to women but also causes the abused to identify with the abuser.

[...]

hat happens in the mind : words from another feminist=

Another reason it’s hard is because there’s a tremendous psychological identification with the oppressor. There’s an absolutely brilliant book called Loving To Survive: Sexual Terror, Men’s Violence, and Women’s Lives by Dee Graham. She’s come up with the concept of Societal Stockholm Syndrome. Her basic thesis is that just as captives bond to their captors in hostage situations, women–and any group that’s oppressed–will bond to men or the group that has social power. Everybody should read this book. It’s incredibly important.

– Responses to Jill’s essay "Comparing Radical Feminism and Sex Worker Rights positions"

Note the thinly veiled implication that Jill, by opposing Gregor’s positions, is "bond[ing] to men or the group that has social power.  In short, even though Jill has said not a word about porn and focused her efforts solely on getting sex workers some floor level of self-protection, her refusal to simply ape the APRF position of "prostituted women" as innate victims of male lust brands her, in Gregor’s eyes, as a tool of men. (All this, BTW, by a man who claims to be an adherent of feminism, no less.)

Again, there you people go with the upside down reality….

most people spend at least some of their time, doing healthier things that obsessing about the evils of radical feminism and extolling the virtues of porn and prostitution.

This is your job it seems, and a full time job. porn in the morning porn in the afternoon, porn in the evening. I think people notice this. either A)= you are being paid to do this Jill, or B)=this topic is something that ossupies your mind 24/7.

– Response to Jill’s essay "Genderberg Blog Topic: Jill Brenneman"

Of course, he’s the one who’s posting constant drive-by smacks there…so who’s really the obsessed one here??

Because prostitution isn’t work, it is sexual slavery and violently enforced physical and psychological submission for almost all of the 40 million prostituted women and girls in the world. Prostituted men, women and Chidren around the world overwhelmingly do not want prostitution legalized and most call it what they have to do to survive but don’t elevate or dignify their bodily violations in prostitution as work.

[...]

You are nothing but an endless parade of lies and smarm . No matter how many times you try to re-package your very sleazy position, it is clear that you are here for, exploitation.Every time I interact with a pro porn male I feel like I have to take a shower .Can *you* address the point that today, from  Copenhagen a place where protitution is legal I recieved a letter from a woman informing me that two  14 year olds were found tricking in the "legal’ red light district? We are talking about young girls , our sisters you pervert, but you don’t care about that, of course not.

– responding in Jill’s essay "Responding to Janice Raymond’s Ten Reasons Not To Legalize Prostitution" (Note: the last quote was directed at me, not Jill.)

And he has an interesting way to deal with men who don’t march in perfect goose step, too…witness this response to Iamcuriousblue in another thread:

The point is that *you* are a  MALE prostitutor  >porn pusher< and  that  you, who are infesting Women’s lives Women’s bodies and Women’s conciousness with your dehumanizing  *garbage* are in no position to tell anyone where to participate in the feminist movement.

Funny..I thought that I was the "porn pusher". But I guess that any male who gets an erection at the sight of an naked or scantily clad female who willingly invites them to share in her lust and pleasure must be inevitably a degrading and dehumanizing "porn pusher", ehhh, Gregor???

This asshat makes Sam look practically moderate in her zealotry, no??

The APRF Cult Strikes Again: Drive-Bys @ Ren & A Whackjob Named Der Gregor

It has been quite amusing watching the antipornradicafeminist beehive lately in its attempts to wipe out their critics.

It wasn’t enough for them to go straight to the "wasp" vs. "honeybee" card and demonize the evil threats from outside the hive (including such traitors like Laura and Andrea, not to mention the likes of "Ambutt", "Belledodo", "PorniePrincess" and "Retrograde Evolution" for having the gall to face the world without the approval of the APRF hive mentality.  But when former radfems who actually start using their brain cells and their eyes and ears to actually see the world from a view other than the Gospels of MacKinnon, Dworkin, and Raymond and actually begin to question their former beliefs…well, let’s just say that things can get ugly.

The latest case in point was mentioned in the last post here: Heart(less)’s base smackdown of Ren for her reaction of anger to Antiprincess pulling her blog due to the insane harrassment by the usual suspects, not to mention the abuse that Jill Brenneman, Andrea (at The Silver Oak Leaf) and a few other women have been getting).  OK, so Ren did get pretty pissed enough to go to the "Fall under a truck and die choking on your own blood" card…but then again, Ren usually gets that way when something or someone really yanks her chain.  How that outburst translates to "silencing" of antipornradfem voices, however, is a mystery that only Heart and her allies could let us in on. (Especially when Heart refuses to even allow the accused to defend themselves of those charges.)  In the same breath that she dropped that charge at Ren, she closed down comments at her blog. But, since she’s a regular at the Genderberg forum, I’m sure that she will have a grand old time further bashing and trashing Ren as a slut/whore/cock-sucking sexbot handmaiden slave to all rapist men.

But even Heart looks practically statesman compared to another particular antipornradfem activist who has been more than a bit active lately. Just go over to Jill Brenneman’s blog and scroll to the comments section of some of her latest entries…and witness the deep thought of a certain male radfem troll named Der Gregor, who has decided that he and he alone will be the representative of APRF thought.

Here are but a few highlights of Gregor’s mindset, some of which in response to Jill, and some in response to other commentators’ attempts to counter his pseudo-theology:

"I don’t need studies and statistics to tell me that there is a relationship between pornography and real violence against women. My body remembers." — Woman’s testimony, 1983.*

[...]

Pornography’s influence is not limited to where it is presented. Those who use it are changed by it. It becomes acceptable in their minds for them to treat all women in the way they see the women in the pornography. It becomes "okay" for them to view women as sexual objects. When men treat women as sexual objects, they do not relate to them on a human to human level. They begin to think it is all right for them to say things to them they would never say to a fellow human being. The respect, the camaraderie is lost.

It is not "okay" for men to view women as sexual objects. Pornography is not "okay". It has begun to proliferate our media, our magazines, our internet, our television. What abour our children? They are seeing this too. Do we really want our children growing up in a world like this? How do you think the children would feel to know how men are viewing their mothers? Their teachers? Their friends? Is this really how we want our world, folks?

– Response to Jill’s essay "Difference between sex work and trafficking"; where Gregor mimes APRF crackpot Diana Russell

Jill, feminism is a political movement. Not a special interest group. Feminism is here as a direct result of a worldwide oppression of Women by men. Feminism is here to become the first life affirming and woman -centered political philosophy that has ever been presented to human society, and it would have been there as a movement mush earlier it’s advent only blocked because of men’s monstrous oppression of women, children and anybody else who was weaker and could be consumed in patriarchy’s jaws.

Your movement not a political movement, exept for the fact that it is doing men’s work. As a feminist, i do not blame you personaly because as you know, this is a worlwide disease that causes not only harm to women but also causes the abused to identify with the abuser.

[...]

hat happens in the mind : words from another feminist=

Another reason it’s hard is because there’s a tremendous psychological identification with the oppressor. There’s an absolutely brilliant book called Loving To Survive: Sexual Terror, Men’s Violence, and Women’s Lives by Dee Graham. She’s come up with the concept of Societal Stockholm Syndrome. Her basic thesis is that just as captives bond to their captors in hostage situations, women–and any group that’s oppressed–will bond to men or the group that has social power. Everybody should read this book. It’s incredibly important.

– Responses to Jill’s essay "Comparing Radical Feminism and Sex Worker Rights positions"

Note the thinly veiled implication that Jill, by opposing Gregor’s positions, is "bond[ing] to men or the group that has social power.  In short, even though Jill has said not a word about porn and focused her efforts solely on getting sex workers some floor level of self-protection, her refusal to simply ape the APRF position of "prostituted women" as innate victims of male lust brands her, in Gregor’s eyes, as a tool of men. (All this, BTW, by a man who claims to be an adherent of feminism, no less.)

Again, there you people go with the upside down reality….

most people spend at least some of their time, doing healthier things that obsessing about the evils of radical feminism and extolling the virtues of porn and prostitution.

This is your job it seems, and a full time job. porn in the morning porn in the afternoon, porn in the evening. I think people notice this. either A)= you are being paid to do this Jill, or B)=this topic is something that ossupies your mind 24/7.

– Response to Jill’s essay "Genderberg Blog Topic: Jill Brenneman"

Of course, he’s the one who’s posting constant drive-by smacks there…so who’s really the obsessed one here??

Because prostitution isn’t work, it is sexual slavery and violently enforced physical and psychological submission for almost all of the 40 million prostituted women and girls in the world. Prostituted men, women and Chidren around the world overwhelmingly do not want prostitution legalized and most call it what they have to do to survive but don’t elevate or dignify their bodily violations in prostitution as work.

[...]

You are nothing but an endless parade of lies and smarm . No matter how many times you try to re-package your very sleazy position, it is clear that you are here for, exploitation.Every time I interact with a pro porn male I feel like I have to take a shower .Can *you* address the point that today, from  Copenhagen a place where protitution is legal I recieved a letter from a woman informing me that two  14 year olds were found tricking in the "legal’ red light district? We are talking about young girls , our sisters you pervert, but you don’t care about that, of course not.

– responding in Jill’s essay "Responding to Janice Raymond’s Ten Reasons Not To Legalize Prostitution" (Note: the last quote was directed at me, not Jill.)

And he has an interesting way to deal with men who don’t march in perfect goose step, too…witness this response to Iamcuriousblue in another thread:

The point is that *you* are a  MALE prostitutor  >porn pusher< and  that  you, who are infesting Women’s lives Women’s bodies and Women’s conciousness with your dehumanizing  *garbage* are in no position to tell anyone where to participate in the feminist movement.

Funny..I thought that I was the "porn pusher". But I guess that any male who gets an erection at the sight of an naked or scantily clad female who willingly invites them to share in her lust and pleasure must be inevitably a degrading and dehumanizing "porn pusher", ehhh, Gregor???

This asshat makes Sam look practically moderate in her zealotry, no??

The APRF Cult Strikes Again: Drive-Bys @ Ren & A Whackjob Named Der Gregor

It has been quite amusing watching the antipornradicafeminist beehive lately in its attempts to wipe out their critics.

It wasn’t enough for them to go straight to the "wasp" vs. "honeybee" card and demonize the evil threats from outside the hive (including such traitors like Laura and Andrea, not to mention the likes of "Ambutt", "Belledodo", "PorniePrincess" and "Retrograde Evolution" for having the gall to face the world without the approval of the APRF hive mentality.  But when former radfems who actually start using their brain cells and their eyes and ears to actually see the world from a view other than the Gospels of MacKinnon, Dworkin, and Raymond and actually begin to question their former beliefs…well, let’s just say that things can get ugly.

The latest case in point was mentioned in the last post here: Heart(less)’s base smackdown of Ren for her reaction of anger to Antiprincess pulling her blog due to the insane harrassment by the usual suspects, not to mention the abuse that Jill Brenneman, Andrea (at The Silver Oak Leaf) and a few other women have been getting).  OK, so Ren did get pretty pissed enough to go to the "Fall under a truck and die choking on your own blood" card…but then again, Ren usually gets that way when something or someone really yanks her chain.  How that outburst translates to "silencing" of antipornradfem voices, however, is a mystery that only Heart and her allies could let us in on. (Especially when Heart refuses to even allow the accused to defend themselves of those charges.)  In the same breath that she dropped that charge at Ren, she closed down comments at her blog. But, since she’s a regular at the Genderberg forum, I’m sure that she will have a grand old time further bashing and trashing Ren as a slut/whore/cock-sucking sexbot handmaiden slave to all rapist men.

But even Heart looks practically statesman compared to another particular antipornradfem activist who has been more than a bit active lately. Just go over to Jill Brenneman’s blog and scroll to the comments section of some of her latest entries…and witness the deep thought of a certain male radfem troll named Der Gregor, who has decided that he and he alone will be the representative of APRF thought.

Here are but a few highlights of Gregor’s mindset, some of which in response to Jill, and some in response to other commentators’ attempts to counter his pseudo-theology:

"I don’t need studies and statistics to tell me that there is a relationship between pornography and real violence against women. My body remembers." — Woman’s testimony, 1983.*

[...]

Pornography’s influence is not limited to where it is presented. Those who use it are changed by it. It becomes acceptable in their minds for them to treat all women in the way they see the women in the pornography. It becomes "okay" for them to view women as sexual objects. When men treat women as sexual objects, they do not relate to them on a human to human level. They begin to think it is all right for them to say things to them they would never say to a fellow human being. The respect, the camaraderie is lost.

It is not "okay" for men to view women as sexual objects. Pornography is not "okay". It has begun to proliferate our media, our magazines, our internet, our television. What abour our children? They are seeing this too. Do we really want our children growing up in a world like this? How do you think the children would feel to know how men are viewing their mothers? Their teachers? Their friends? Is this really how we want our world, folks?

– Response to Jill’s essay "Difference between sex work and trafficking"; where Gregor mimes APRF crackpot Diana Russell

Jill, feminism is a political movement. Not a special interest group. Feminism is here as a direct result of a worldwide oppression of Women by men. Feminism is here to become the first life affirming and woman -centered political philosophy that has ever been presented to human society, and it would have been there as a movement mush earlier it’s advent only blocked because of men’s monstrous oppression of women, children and anybody else who was weaker and could be consumed in patriarchy’s jaws.

Your movement not a political movement, exept for the fact that it is doing men’s work. As a feminist, i do not blame you personaly because as you know, this is a worlwide disease that causes not only harm to women but also causes the abused to identify with the abuser.

[...]

hat happens in the mind : words from another feminist=

Another reason it’s hard is because there’s a tremendous psychological identification with the oppressor. There’s an absolutely brilliant book called Loving To Survive: Sexual Terror, Men’s Violence, and Women’s Lives by Dee Graham. She’s come up with the concept of Societal Stockholm Syndrome. Her basic thesis is that just as captives bond to their captors in hostage situations, women–and any group that’s oppressed–will bond to men or the group that has social power. Everybody should read this book. It’s incredibly important.

– Responses to Jill’s essay "Comparing Radical Feminism and Sex Worker Rights positions"

Note the thinly veiled implication that Jill, by opposing Gregor’s positions, is "bond[ing] to men or the group that has social power.  In short, even though Jill has said not a word about porn and focused her efforts solely on getting sex workers some floor level of self-protection, her refusal to simply ape the APRF position of "prostituted women" as innate victims of male lust brands her, in Gregor’s eyes, as a tool of men. (All this, BTW, by a man who claims to be an adherent of feminism, no less.)

Again, there you people go with the upside down reality….

most people spend at least some of their time, doing healthier things that obsessing about the evils of radical feminism and extolling the virtues of porn and prostitution.

This is your job it seems, and a full time job. porn in the morning porn in the afternoon, porn in the evening. I think people notice this. either A)= you are being paid to do this Jill, or B)=this topic is something that ossupies your mind 24/7.

– Response to Jill’s essay "Genderberg Blog Topic: Jill Brenneman"

Of course, he’s the one who’s posting constant drive-by smacks there…so who’s really the obsessed one here??

Because prostitution isn’t work, it is sexual slavery and violently enforced physical and psychological submission for almost all of the 40 million prostituted women and girls in the world. Prostituted men, women and Chidren around the world overwhelmingly do not want prostitution legalized and most call it what they have to do to survive but don’t elevate or dignify their bodily violations in prostitution as work.

[...]

You are nothing but an endless parade of lies and smarm . No matter how many times you try to re-package your very sleazy position, it is clear that you are here for, exploitation.Every time I interact with a pro porn male I feel like I have to take a shower .Can *you* address the point that today, from  Copenhagen a place where protitution is legal I recieved a letter from a woman informing me that two  14 year olds were found tricking in the "legal’ red light district? We are talking about young girls , our sisters you pervert, but you don’t care about that, of course not.

– responding in Jill’s essay "Responding to Janice Raymond’s Ten Reasons Not To Legalize Prostitution" (Note: the last quote was directed at me, not Jill.)

And he has an interesting way to deal with men who don’t march in perfect goose step, too…witness this response to Iamcuriousblue in another thread:

The point is that *you* are a  MALE prostitutor  >porn pusher< and  that  you, who are infesting Women’s lives Women’s bodies and Women’s conciousness with your dehumanizing  *garbage* are in no position to tell anyone where to participate in the feminist movement.

Funny..I thought that I was the "porn pusher". But I guess that any male who gets an erection at the sight of an naked or scantily clad female who willingly invites them to share in her lust and pleasure must be inevitably a degrading and dehumanizing "porn pusher", ehhh, Gregor???

This asshat makes Sam look practically moderate in her zealotry, no??