RMildred Holds Her Ground; And A Certain ‘Dog Finally Snaps Back

I will say this for RMildred..she really does know how to hold her ground. Her latest response in the "Blow Is Totally Feminist, Though" thread, in rebuttal to some majestic dissection from KH and Belledame (particularly insulting phrases emphasized):

  • 150 R. Mildred Aug 18th, 2006 at 12:10 pm
    Well, what KH and others said. i.e. if not actual “approval” (that language is familiar to me, too), at least just letting it the hell go already.  Except if you’d remember waaaay back at the very start, 10,000 years ago, we had KH saying that prostitution was feminist and empowering and half a dozen other buzz words I see anti-fems trot out time and time again when what htey’re talking about is nothing of the kind, is in fact a way to further depower and control women and their sexuality, and I’m sick of perfectly good words like that being killed through misuse – prostitution isn’t empowering, it isn’t feminist, anything that involves pleasuring johns cannot be feminist, anything that exists as a byproduct of the patriarchal assumption that men have an unalienable right to masturbate inside another human being, cannot be feminist. So seeing as the basic premise of way too many pro-legalisation types is inherently flawed, is wrong on so many levels, what is the purpose of using such terms? Let’s first of all discount people like that Girls Gone Wild guy, who use various feminist terms to legitimize their skeeviness wihtout actually giving a flying fuck whether what htey’re saying is true or – the point is to confuse the issue so that no one challenges them. So that leaves two other reason, one is that the person using hte terms gains from prostitution being accepted as empowering and feminst, and will in fact be able ot effectively highjack feminists to fight their battles for them – which is bad because hte patriarhcy is there remember – while ignoring the ones who get screwed over by full legalisation because suddenly prostitution is all about the magical empowering feminist vagina puppies, and all that bad stuff that goes on, well that will be illegal because rape and abuse laws are so strict these days right? The final reason is that they really belive wha thye’re saying, that they are only able to do what yhey do because of this thin tissue of lies they weave, and that sort of willful self deception shouldn’t be allowed ot go unchallenged, there’s a real reason they sell their bodies, KH sort of brushed past in the Walmart worker comparison – you won’t get a someone who wrks in walmart telling you how wonderful and empowering and how rainbows fly out of their asses now thath they work in walmart, wokrign in walmart isn’t even a particularly good palce work in ethically – very few places are – but here’s the thing, if someone who works in walmart told me they were content/happy/able to stand working there, that they could in fact get work elsewhere but chose ot work there becuase they like it for actual reason X; which isn’t “empowerment” or any similar term, because the work ain’t. And if they looked me in the eye and said the actual reason, whether it was the money or just because htey enjoy something about the work itself or the fact that they’ve done worse jobs and are content with what htey have – what could I say really? They haven’t tarted it up, covered it in a pile of bullshit five miles high so that I’ll accepet it, it’s not my place ot accept them, and if they simply put forth that they are themselves, and they do this act because that is what works for them for these reasons, well waht can I say? I can point out my reason for not fighting for legalisation, I can point out that it’s not feminist (but it’s not like the entire movement will be collapsed by one woman selling her body). And when they stnad there and shrug, because they are they, whether I like it or not, well then I can hug them cuz they’re empowered, not because they sell their body ot sleazy guys who cna’t be bothered to use their hands, but because they are honest with themselves and don’t lie to other people and make them complicit in their self deception.

That was the straw that finally broke a certain ‘Dog’s back….and elicited this response from moi:

  • 151 Anthony Kennerson Aug 18th, 2006 at 1:07 pm
    Oh, please…cut the bullshit, RM.  Let’s just break through the crap and get radical (as in, to the root of the issue). If someone disagrees with your belief that “pornstitution” is innately “patriarchial” and wrong because it constitutes “male use of women as masturbatory objects” and “women selling their bodies to men”, then they are immediately deemed to be either fools or liars or “self’deceivers” who are so caught up in their orgasms or the money that they can’t see how they are being decieved by “the patriarchy” to believe that they aren’t being used. On the other hand, if someone agrees with you, then they are immediately praised as a feminist revolutionary in full resistance to “the patriarchy”….even when they restate the same old tired conservative reactionary sexual mores about women needing to “save themselves” from the evil male gaze and the threat of their own sexual urges and feelings. And as for comparing sex workers to Wal-Mart associates/employees: I’ll have you know that I know several dear friends who work for that company; they will say that while Wally World does have its issues (not that different from most other large world-wide retailers, other than the economies of scale), they will say that for the most part, it is a tolerable place to work; and that most people will shop there because of their cheap prices. But of course, comparing the world’s largest retailer who has the global marketing power to impose their conditions on whole nations to a sex worker who only gets to pick and choose her clients, is the height of lunacy to most thinking people. BTW….your description of criticism of radfem ideology as favoring “men’s unalienable right to masturbate inside another human being” not only does exactly what you accuse “pro-pornstitution” advocates of doing (that is, reducing the woman to an unthinking, unfeeling object), but it is also just plain loony. You see, RM, a real woman is not quite the reduction to a blow-up doll that you take her to be; she has nerve endings, feelings, and emotions. There is a reason why a woman just might allow a man’s penis (or a dildo, or a vibrator, or her fingers, or whatever object may subsitute) inside her vagina: IT FUCKING FEELS GOOD. To tell women that seeking consensual pleasure is to be condemned merely because it violates certain “feminist” principles is not only unconsciously dense and unfeeling; it is fundamentally fascist and…dare I say it…antifeminist. Oh…and what would you say about a man going down on a woman with his toungue and fingers; would that be considered by you to be “using the woman as a sex object”??? I mean, we are talking about a real living woman’s vagina, not a Fleshlight. Last time I checked, most men who have consensual sex with women — whether they pay for it or not — do happen to have at least a fleeting concern with the woman’s feelings….as in, whether the woman actually gets as much pleasure from the encounter as they (the guys) get. In the real world, that would be applauded as sensitivity and empathy for women; only in the alternaverse of radfem ideology would that be condemned as “patriarchial” control of women by men. Finally…I don’t remember KM or anybody on the “pro-pornstitution” side ever saying that prostitution was in any way innately “liberating” or “empowering” to everyone. Well, guess what, RM…I will come out right here right now and say it outright. (And I speak only for myself here, not for anyone else; so let’s get that disclaimer out of the way.) I happen to think that for some people and in some situations, prostitiution and porn CAN INDEED be liberating AND empowering; both in the sense of economic freedom and sexual liberation. Anything that challenges the prevailing right-wing sexual restrictive and repressive social code, and which allows even a tiny bit of freedom from economic ruin, can’t be really that half bad…and if if that makes me in your eyes a tool of the “patriarchy”, well, tough cookies to ‘ya. Not all porn and sex work is so positive, of course; that’s why I as a socialist and a sex radical work to change the means and ends of production to allow ALL workers (sex workers included) more control over their professions and the fruits of their labors and services. I can’t change how you feel about us, RM, and won’t even attempt to do so; you have your right to your opinion. But please, don’t patronize me with your horseshit about how I and others who want to make sex work and the erotic/pornographic media more humane, legitimate, and user and worker friendly are merely “lying” and “self-deceiving” ourselves because our stories don’t mesh perfectly with your saw stories and morality plays. All that does is to make you look more and more like a crank antisex bigot in feminist drag who uses words like “patriarchy” and “feminism” as cluster bombs against people whose personal sexual decisions and personas you just can’t accept or respect. If we’re the ones covered in bullshit, RM, it’s because you’re the one throwing most of it at us. That’s my opinion….take it, leave it, or just kiss it.  


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